| In the second part of the interview with Javier, we | | | | me, kill her and I’ll pay you”. They pay them |
| continue to explore the use of Healing plants and | | | | and they do harm. |
| Ayahuasca. discusses his involvement with the | | | | But the shaman who made us ill did not do it |
| shamanic Plant medicines of the Amazon, and | | | | intentionally. |
| Ayahuasca in particular. Javier was interviewed by | | | | No, of ignorance. It was a shaman from the city not |
| Howard G Charing and Peter Cloudsley in the Peru, | | | | from the forest. He went away and left us to mop |
| Amazon Rainforest 2000. | | | | up the ill effects. He may have had a good teacher |
| Does each shaman have to find it all out for himself | | | | but does not diet, he is very fat! (People in the jungle |
| or is there a body of knowledge handed down? | | | | are rarely fat.) |
| The maestro goes with the apprentice into the | | | | In addition he probably eats the day of the session |
| wilderness and gives him the different plants and it is | | | | and that is why he threw up himself! |
| like a test or trial to overcome. The maestro is | | | | How does this affect Westerners? |
| usually a member of family. In my case both my | | | | It doesn’t matter, they will probably throw up |
| grandfather and my uncle were maestros. You go | | | | and not have any vision because when he blows he |
| off deep into the forest with your maestro and | | | | has condiments on his breath. However, it matters |
| make a very simple shelter or ‘tambo’. A | | | | much less if the clients have eaten or not stuck |
| shaman must not live in a big house, its just for | | | | rigorously to the diet. The important thing is that the |
| sleeping and dieting. | | | | shaman diets. |
| How long do you have to diet the plant? | | | | Note: There is much discrepancy between shamans |
| Just one day to know its process, the next day you | | | | concerning the question of vomiting. Some say it is |
| move onto another. This is if you do not return to | | | | necessary for the body to rid itself of what ever is |
| the city, you can get through a lot of plants. This is | | | | necessary and that if they are not sick they might |
| different from dieting a plant for a month say. | | | | get ill. (Ayahusaca is often referred to as La Purga.) |
| So does every condition or illness have a particular | | | | Others say if you vomit you will not have such good |
| plant to remedy it or is it a spirit energy which comes | | | | vision and on no account should a shaman vomit. |
| through the plant which can cure many things? | | | | Why and how did you become a shaman? |
| One plant may cure lots of ailments. A particular plant | | | | I never thought of being a shaman. I took |
| has a spirit which can either heal or kill. As for | | | | Ayahuasca from 14 years old just to clean my |
| example with another shaman (who we worked with | | | | stomach. Later my father said I heard you chanting, |
| earlier) , who had not dieted Ayahuasca correctly and | | | | you are going to be a shaman. I don’t want to I |
| poom! it caused fever and people caught colds. | | | | said. Later when I was 20 my father died from |
| So why would a plant kill or cure? | | | | sorcery so then I wanted to learn in order to take |
| Because an hechicero (sorcerer) also learns from the | | | | vengeance. During my apprenticeship I had a change |
| plants. He may for example learn from dieting a plant | | | | of heart and understood that God knew best in such |
| which has spines or phlegm which could be good for | | | | situations. |
| certain things. But if he is bad no one can stop him | | | | Why did the brujo want to kill your father? |
| and in the night ‘ffoooo’ he uses it for harm | | | | Because he was a curandero who had cured |
| or to kill. These are the brujos who come back from | | | | someone who had been harmed by the brujo. It |
| the forest with eyes red like the huayruro (red beans | | | | happens because we curanderos undo the work of |
| with black spots). He is a bad shaman and we have | | | | the brujos and they get angry with us. This is the |
| to cure the people they harm. | | | | famous spiritual battle between the brujos. When |
| Who would want to do such things? | | | | you cure you send the bad magic back to where it |
| There are some people who have a squabble with | | | | comes from and the brujos get their own dirty |
| someone, and then they go off to see a brujo and | | | | medicine back. This is why there is a fight between |
| say “this Senora talks too much and has insulted | | | | the good and the bad. |